Curse

Watermelon Tacos · Jun 25, 2009, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Hi everyone I just bought nightfall and I made a dervish. After I made one, I looked through the dervish skills and I saw two skills that could be possible e-management. Attacker's Insight decreases energy cost of attacks and Zealous Renewal gives energy depending on how many hits are done while the enchantment is up. I was wondering which one is better if I spec:
12+1+1 in Scythe Mastery
12+1 in Mysticism
3+1 in Wind prayers

I was thinking of Attacker's Insight but I was hoping you guru experts can help me decide

Improvavel · Jun 25, 2009, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Attacker's Insight for sure.

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 25, 2009, 01:29 AM // 01:29

I perfer Zealous Vow, but if you perfer renewal, insight. I have problems with renewal. If you renew the enchantment (ironic, huh?) you don't get the energy from when it was active, thus, negating the purpose. Plus, you have to WAIT for the energy return, whereas insight is instant and can be maintained. Only problem is the next 1...3...3 attack skills, so, if you use skills like lyssa's sweep at rank 5, you get a free 10 energy

Axel Zinfandel · Jun 25, 2009, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Attackers insight for sure.

Zealous renewal is unreliable since you ussually have to wait for it to end, and have to hit a foe 5+ times for it to be worth it.

Zealous Vow is a waste of an elite and nets too much energy.

Using attackers insight, you should have no problems, esspecially if you throw Lyssa's Assault in there.

Megas XLR · Jun 25, 2009, 01:42 AM // 01:42

+1 for Zealous Vow builds.

I'd use Attacker's Insight too, you get free attacks and can use 10e attacks without expending a lot of energy. Not only does Attacker's Insight make you negate energy, but it also returns some back whenever you finish using it. Couple that with energy you're getting from enchantments from teammates, and BAM. Ownage city.

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 25, 2009, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Attackers insight for sure.

Zealous renewal is unreliable since you ussually have to wait for it to end, and have to hit a foe 5+ times for it to be worth it.

Zealous Vow is a waste of an elite and nets too much energy.

Using attackers insight, you should have no problems, esspecially if you throw Lyssa's Assault in there.

You're kidding me? I have problems getting the MINIMAL amount without ZV. It's a perfectly good elite, and you can even swap zealous for vamp mods, throw in mystic vigor, SY, ect. and let the damage+self-heals fly!

IronSheik · Jun 25, 2009, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Zealous Vow is one of the better derv elites, if you don't realize that, you're running the wrong build, (i.e. needing lyssa's assault with AI)

Axel Zinfandel · Jun 25, 2009, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Zealous vow is far too -much- energy, frankly. You can get by using Attacker's insight and a zealous weapon. If you need any past that, macro-ing a quick enchantment to be placed on you by a hero will net energy when you need it (Reversal of fortune, patient spirit.)

I somehow don't justify myself in using a typical Zealous vow, low mysticism attribute set because it's something that any melee could run better. I'd MUCH rather throw Attacker's insight in there and use Wounding Strike/ Reaper's Sweep as an elite, and if need be, take a little bit more skill and do as I stated above.

Frankly I think if you aren't abusing Mysticism, then why even run a dervish in the first place. Hell, you could roll a warrior, or any class for that matter (though typically melee) with wind/scythe with ZV and get away with it.

Still, the OP wassn't about ZV

Slasher of Darkness · Jun 25, 2009, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Attacker's Insight for sure, when I was still low lvl and had about no knowledge bout dervs, I used zealous renewal, then I found out it sucked and I didn't use any at all. Now for a while I use Attacker's Insight + Zealous scythe and enchantements and I have absolutely NO energy probs.

SuperCoha · Jun 25, 2009, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Attacker's Insight all the way, both PvE and PvP wise.

Verene · Jun 25, 2009, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Zealous Renewal sucks. The few times I've ever used it, I've had full energy before it even ended, making it a waste of an enchantment. Just get yourself a zealous scythe and call it done.

Attacker's Insight can be handy if you feel like speccing into Wind Prayers and use some of the more expensive attack skills. I don't use it very often though.

SuperCoha · Jun 25, 2009, 08:39 PM // 20:39

It doesn't require much points.. I usually put everything into Scythe/Mysticism, and dump the rest in Wind Prayers, and Attacker's Insight still helps a lot, even with 4 points. It's the best e-management skill for a dervish.

Megas XLR · Jun 25, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

weeeeeeeeee not much difference between 12 mysticism and 13 mysticism, already broke the break point for energy

Watermelon Tacos · Jun 26, 2009, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megas XLR

weeeeeeeeee not much difference between 12 mysticism and 13 mysticism, already broke the break point for energy

So if I lowered mysticicm to 11+1 and raised wind, it would be better?

ИσιR · Jun 26, 2009, 12:26 PM // 12:26

I absolutely love my Zealous Vow-Mirage Cloak spammer. Its great fun being able to use expensive spells and completely regain my energy by the time twin moon recharges (:

reaper with no name · Jun 26, 2009, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Attacker's Insight is far, far better than zealous renewal. If you have an IAS up for the whole duration, zealous renewal will only get you about 10 net energy, while forcing you to wait for it (it'll be more if you hit multiple foes each time, but you can't rely on this).

Meanwhile, Attacker's Insight lets you spam expensive attacks like Lyssa's Assault and Chilling Victory (which together is 20 energy saved), while being reliable and not requiring you to wait. Easily the better of the two.

Sirius-NZ · Jun 26, 2009, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watermelon Tacos

So if I lowered mysticicm to 11+1 and raised wind, it would be better?

If you're using Wind Prayers skills, probably.

Celtus · Jun 26, 2009, 07:36 PM // 19:36

People are forgetting dervishes have an arsenal of extremely powerful skills that remove an enchant..twin moon sweep, irresistible sweep, pious light, mystic sandstorm, pious restraint, pious fury, pious haste etc.

That being said you dont NEED TO wait for the enchant to end because alot of dervish builds remove their own enchants. Furthermore, dont forget zealous renewal has a pbaoe holy damage component.

in conclusion: attackers insight is much more common and easier to use efficiently. But, in the hands of a smart dervish with a good setup, zealous renewal could also prove to be a valuable spell, given the potentially huge energy gain upon ending, and the aoe holy damage it provides.

SuperCoha · Jun 26, 2009, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celtus

People are forgetting dervishes have an arsenal of extremely powerful skills that remove an enchant..twin moon sweep, irresistible sweep, pious light, mystic sandstorm, pious restraint, pious fury, pious haste etc.

That being said you dont NEED TO wait for the enchant to end because alot of dervish builds remove their own enchants. Furthermore, dont forget zealous renewal has a pbaoe holy damage component.

in conclusion: attackers insight is much more common and easier to use efficiently. But, in the hands of a smart dervish with a good setup, zealous renewal could also prove to be a valuable spell, given the potentially huge energy gain upon ending, and the aoe holy damage it provides.

Yes, but you gain more energy the more it lasts. So there's no real benefit of ending it quick. And besides, of all those skills you mentioned, only one is an attack skill, so you would be wasting time casting when you could be hitting stuff, in order to increase Zealous Renewal energy gain.

Celtus · Jun 26, 2009, 10:00 PM // 22:00

3 scythe attacks that remove enchant: twin moon sweep, irresistible sweep, pious assault..the first 2 are the best attacks scythe mastery has to offer (twin moon = swing twice with strongest wep in game & irresistible is the only unblockable scythe attk and has +alot dmg) and pious assault is the only non elite deep wound you can use without weakening yourself...

anyway was just stating the fact that dervish can and should self strip enchants in alot of builds, since some posters were complaining about having to *wait* the full enchant duration to get the energy gain.